You are here: Home > Online Surgery > Digital lifecycle 1
Archive of Online Surgery Sessions
Digital lifecycle 1
Session date: 04 November 2009
Topics covered during the session
Topics covered included: digital storage media and strategies - DVD-R and other optical media, hard drives, networked storage, online storage
Transcript of questions and answers (edited to remove personal data)
——————————-
Moderator: Welcome to this week’s session. We don’t have a screencast this week - feel free to ask your questions by typing them here in this chat box
——————————-
ed: Is there any particular theme to this beyond ‘Digital Media’? this seems rather vague
——————————-
ed: Do you want me to get the ball rolling?
——————————-
Moderator: @ed - general theme is digital lifecycle, but there’s no screencast this week - so any Qs welcome
——————————-
ed: OK, a question regarding upcoming digital storage media:
——————————-
ed: I have been asked to write a report on what forms of storage should be used to replace a collection currently on DVD-R?
——————————-
Moderator: Hi @linda. We don’t have a screencast this week - feel free to ask your questions by typing them here in this chat box
——————————-
ed: Is DVD-R still the storage media of choice and best practice?
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): hard drive would be the ideal
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): it’s easier to back up, error check and manage
——————————-
ed: Are we yet at a stage where we can recommend hard-drives as a form of long-term back up storage?
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): yes, I’d say so - but the trick it to spread your bets…
——————————-
ed: also more prone to damage from virii, user-mistake, and other loss damage
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): ...if the data is small enough to be backed up on something else (digital tape or optical disc) that’s a great idea too
——————————-
ed: Are any of the other optical formats getting close to full support from industry - BluRay for instance or has this died a death?
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Good points Ed, but if managed actively these weaknesses can be addressed
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): My impression is that BluRay has marginal take up as of yet. Costs are still falling tho which may lead to greater use
——————————-
ed: Is there a point where it becomes just too big?
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Not too big for digital tape , but certainly too big for optical discs
——————————-
ed: if one disc has too much information on it, the worry due to loss or damage becomes magnified by having all your eggs in one basket
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): Most photographers currently use HD as long term storage… with lots of redundancy
——————————-
ed: Well this collection is a little bigger than most photographers personal collections!!
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): and with the life expectancy of a home made DVD being around 2 years (officially anyway) things seem a bit glum
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): RAID presents some problems tho for automating backups so can be time consuming if you opt to use a different approach to mirror HD versions
——————————-
ed: tape is certainly feasible, but my experience have practically all been bad for using tape for large image collections
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): maybe tape is best suited for dark-archives which are almost never accessed?
——————————-
ed: this may be just me, but it seems to work well for data back up with incremental changes, but seems less happy with large volumes of images as back up
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): How about multiple HD backups and replace periodically?
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): They’re fast, easily accessible and relatively cheap
——————————-
ed: Surely we should be encouraging easy access to all these digital collections.
——————————-
ed: they only really un-used collection should be the one that is for back-up and mirror of another working collection.
——————————-
linda a: HD certainly makes sharing easier
——————————-
ed: Yes, Dave I think I agree….I have certainly advised this in the past to clients….but not everyone likes it. There are certainly those who worry about the safety issues
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): yes, I think collections on tape and belt-and-braces. they should be on spinning disc also
——————————-
ed: We need to remember this isn’t a small collection!
——————————-
Jon Moore: Tape is now being viewed by the industry as the “last resort” backup and should be kept as the final offline version.
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): How large is the collection Ed
——————————-
ed: Not sure exactly….it grows every time I go away for a bit….but a National collection.
——————————-
ed: Actually it depends what they decide to include in the new data-preservation strategy….it varies
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): collection management software also plays a large part in selecting a storage medium, it may be that it wants everything to be online, not near-line or offline…
——————————-
ed: Has there been any mutterings about the idea of creating a national archive/repository for all major collections in the UK…digital collections!
——————————-
ed: Sorry…should of said an online back up for ....
——————————-
Karla: no, there have been mutterings about how to make access easier to the vast variety of collections, but no national back-up/repository.
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Not heard of this Ed, but there are plenty of collections holding backups of each other’s data
——————————-
ed: It seems to have been on the back-burner for years and with the advent of ‘Cloud’ computing you would of thought it might be closer.
——————————-
carla: I don’t think any national strategy has been devised - there certainly isn’t any money in the sector.
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): Going back to your original question (I’m still mulling this over…) - given that it is a large collection I think optical media would be very time consuming as a backup for the whole collection but might add something as a backup of selected, high value assets. If the collection changes regularly and backups need to reflect this then intransient optical media can be wasteful in terms of both time and money
——————————-
Moderator: Welcome @a.dunning We don’t have a screencast this week - feel free to ask your questions by typing them here in this chat box
——————————-
ed: There are already a CD-R version of the main part, then a DVD-R copy of all main collection plus newer works. The main highlights are also available online as is everything else in web-sized.
——————————-
ed: this is part of a bi-annual report to recommend the next migration of the data to keep it within recognised and accepted media.
——————————-
ed: My question is do I recommend to stay on DVD-R, move it to another optical media or go online or go to some data warehousing option.
——————————-
ed: at the moment looking for a feeling of where the data preservation strategy best practice on media is going over next 5 years.
——————————-
a.dunning: Is DVD really still a suggested strategy for preservation? Shouldn’t everything be networked as part of a larger preservation framework?
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): It also seems as though it’s in predicting and planning for failure that’s the hot topic, not trusting in the hardware.
——————————-
ed: Me to a.dunning: Is there any sign of anything official from your side?
——————————-
a.dunning: @ed an institutional preservation strategy is the framework
——————————-
a.dunning: However, plenty of institutions don’t have them, some by choice some by ignorance
——————————-
Jon Moore: The issue is also in terms of cost. The building blocks of Networked/Disk provision is not cheap from the outset although savings can be made in the medium term and by allowing wider access.
——————————-
a.dunning: @jon, yes that’s true. there are plenty of smaller institutions that probably can’t afford such provision
——————————-
ed: and larger ones.
——————————-
ed: I am working on that strategy…as it were….it exists and every couple of years I update it for them
——————————-
ed: but the question still remains what to go on to after DVD-R?
——————————-
ed: Last time (about 3 years ago) we looked at online storage and just couldn’t make it work within the money they had
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): To go back to your question about recommendations, Ed. I’d never recommend DVD-R as a standalone solution, unless perhaps you were renewing the media once a year. It’s just too flaky.
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): 3 years is a long, long time in the online storage world.
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): Now that you can get a terabyte for under £100, hard disks become a lot more feasible.
——————————-
Gavin (JISC Digital Media): does it have to be a ‘static’ medium, or is RAID/SAN a viable solution
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): I guess as with most of these things there is the ideal solution and then there are the possible solutions given time and budget. The primary aspect of importance is having a robust solution to backing up and for that I would suggest a combination of HD and perhaps optical. I’m with Steve. I would never suggest DVD alone
——————————-
ed: so we went with DVD-R…but now we need to see where to go next
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): The advantages to properly managed spinning-disc storage are really great…
——————————-
Jon Moore: Ed, I think what we are alluding to is that it depends on the size of the collection, growth and access requirements (not to mention budget).
——————————-
ed: Oh totally agree….
——————————-
ed: but the same pressures of money and growth of demand effect the nationals as much as they do the smaller collection
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Has anyone seen any figures relating to the life span of solid state drives? I’d have expected them to be commonly known by now
——————————-
Moderator: Welcome @cyberdoyle
——————————-
cyberdoyle: only just managed to download and install the viewer, what have I missed?
——————————-
a.dunning: JISC and the DPC have some case studies in preservation from its digitisation projects coming out soon
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): I think Id double up hard disk and tape, not hard disk and optical: the tape provides longer-term, longer-life storage and the hard disks are quicker access (and shorter lifespan). I’d save the optical media for casual backups, transfers, etc.
——————————-
ed: Remember, the whole HLF digitisation project to capture all works on paper at the Tate….and later all other works still had a budget less than one show at the tate.
——————————-
a.dunning: @ ed do you have precise figures?
——————————-
Moderator: @cyberdoyle - we are discussing storage solutions DVD-R vs hard disk vs networked
——————————-
cyberdoyle: o i c. ta.
——————————-
ed: Not in my head, but they must be public as it was a HLF and later a NOF Dig project
——————————-
a.dunning: Ah, okay, if it was the Insight project, it was £377k - NOF facts and figures are at http://web.me.com/xcia0069/nof.html
——————————-
Moderator: @cyberdoyle - but feel free to ask any q’s relating to audio, moving images or still images
——————————-
ed: the point is that at that stage (and still now?) the digital element of a national collection is still only a very small part of the whole in financial terms
——————————-
cyberdoyle: storage needs to be on the cloud and also on hard disk in another location. DVDs are too fragile and time consuming. IMHO.
——————————-
ed: I agree with you cyberdoyle! and they always have the DVD-R and CD-R collections as past backups
——————————-
ed: But i am not sure how keen they will be on this.
——————————-
ed: in the past they have not been
——————————-
ed: the question is whether the cost and reliability have got to a point where they are viable and they like it.
——————————-
ed: Incidentally, it is normally the Network and IT guys that don’t like it….the collection guys are up for it!
——————————-
ed: Anyway, sorry to duck out…now that I have got everyone steamed up….but got to go to meeting.
——————————-
ed: Good to talk to all
——————————-
ed: Thanks for the ideas
——————————-
Moderator: thanks @ed - see you again
——————————-
Moderator: We have about 15 mins left - does anyone have any other questions or comments on different topics?
——————————-
Jon Moore: Would also point out that DVD-R and optical media is usually much easier to support by collection teams, where as disk options tend to need higher levels of technical support.
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Good point Jon, but I feel this is changing as collections becoming increasingly born-digital
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): I’d also argue, Jon, that easily hot pluggable hard disks has made support just as easy as for optical media.
——————————-
a.dunning: Also, to what extent does JDM provide advice at a strategic level rather than a technical level? I ask because there are an increasing amount of institutions thinking about their digital content strategies, and needing to come up with joined up thinking for creating, delivering and preserving all their digital content
——————————-
Moderator: @Steve - like Drobo? http://www.drobo.com/
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): Yes, that’s one product—but there’s a lot out there.
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): Yes Moderator… last time I looked Drobo was USB 2.0 only though which makes it slow. But this is the kind of device that make’s backing up easy for the novice
——————————-
Moderator: They now have a FireWire 800 one too
——————————-
a.dunning: @stephen well pdfs of journals are still digital media ... but I know what you mean
——————————-
Nigel (JISC Digital Media): @Dave- writing to HD via USB2 must still be faster than burning DVDs
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): Successful management of institutional data is certainly part of what we’re involved in, but I think this is a good opportunity for a JISC-wide offensive!
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): and the DCC…
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): and UKOLN.
——————————-
a.dunning: @stephen you’re right - JISC needs to bring the learning from JDM, DCC ,UKOLN, RSP etc together
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): good point though, even the definition of ‘digital media’ is in flux, what about interactives? games? even OCR…
——————————-
Stephen (JISC Digital Media): makes our day-to-day work very interesting!
——————————-
cyberdoyle: storage is now very cheap
——————————-
Steve (JISC Digital Media): @a.dunning, Speaking for myself, the distinction between strategic and technical doesn’t concern me: I respond to questions posed to me, whatever their area of concern. If we’re asked strategic questions we can answer them, and the same with technical ones.
——————————-
cyberdoyle: there is no need to make a song and dance about it any more. Terabyte drives cost a few pounds, and cloud storage is easily available if good broadband connection is possible on site
——————————-
cyberdoyle: one museum could easily host another museum’s collection to provide resilience
——————————-
Dave K (JISC Digital Media): @ A.Dunning The case studies you mentioned earlier - is there any chance of building a critical mass of such studies relating to institutional approaches and then providing some overarching recommendations based on them? Often it’s a case of showing people what options there are rather than being too prescriptive.
——————————-
Moderator: @a.dunning - Steve is right we can help on strategic issues as well as technical
——————————-
a.dunning: @Dave Yup, DPC is currently writing a final report based on recommendations from the case studies - agree entirely about showing people the options
——————————-
Karla: Part of our remit (as I see it) is to work with JISC to deal with these national questions also.
——————————-
Moderator: Folks it’s nearly time to wrap up… we will provide an edited (to remove personal details) transcript of this session on the site later today
——————————-
Moderator: thanks to all for joining in - hope to see you again at a future session.
——————————-
a.dunning: okay, cheers
——————————-
James: Thanks - this looks like a very useful forum - see you again!
——————————-
Moderator: Very glad it was of use
Archive
- Using screen capture software
21 April 2010Read transcriptTopics covered included: screen capture; screencasts; iTunes U; podcasts for learning
- Digital lifecycle overview
24 March 2010Read transcriptTopics covered included: audio, or video and screen capture in VLEs
- Understanding where digital media fits into your course
27 January 2010Read transcriptTopics covered included: copyright and use of off-air recordings in VLEs; ERA and ERA plus licences; embedded image metadata; separating audio from video files.
- Online surgery Jan 13
13 January 2010Read transcriptTopics covered included: colour management; video formats for online delivery; portable audio recorders and audio editing software; metadata migration
- Choosing a recording space
16 December 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: choosing a recording space
- Basic microphone technique and placement
02 December 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: microphone technique; live webstreaming.
- Flickr as a Source of Free-to-Use Images
18 November 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: podcasting with GarageBand; permissions/consent requirements when photographing people; photography in public places; sources of free images for use in education
- Digital lifecycle 1
04 November 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: digital storage media and strategies - DVD-R and other optical media, hard drives, networked storage, online storage
- Introduction to screen capture / screencasting
21 October 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: webcasting; screen capture; video editing; presentation software; copyright issues; ERA licences.
- Camera skills/techniques
07 October 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: video production and editing; backgrounds and lighting for photography; music copyright; storyboarding; copyright for screengrabs.
- Recording audio podcasts
23 September 2009Read transcriptTopics covered included: promoting your collection; recording audio for presentations; and reducing noise in audio recordings.
